Leadership Deep Dive

Ep 168: Radical Acceptance

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The phrase “radical acceptance” scares people. We get it—it sounds extreme. It sounds like you’re about to overthrow a government or dye your hair neon green. But when we use the term “radical acceptance,” we choose it intentionally.

Margaret and David choose it because true acceptance is a radical act. It goes against our instincts to fight, to fix, or to control outcomes.

Recently, Margaret wrote a brilliant article about her journey with her aging father. It sparked a conversation between us that we think every leader, manager, and human being needs to hear. Whether you’re dealing with a difficult parent, a toxic boss, or just the indignities of aging, radical acceptance might be the key to unlocking a peace you didn’t know was possible.

What is radical acceptance really?

Let’s clear up a misconception: acceptance isn’t about liking the situation. It’s not about condoning bad behavior or becoming a doormat. You can accept that a problem is happening while still believing deep down that you have the power to protect yourself.

Radical acceptance is about acknowledging reality precisely as it is, without the filter of how you wish it were.

Margaret shared a powerful story about her father. As he aged, he became grumpier and less tolerant. Their interactions left her wrecked for days—flooded with emotion and completely drained. She loved him and didn’t want to end the relationship, but it was hurting her.

When she asked her therapist for help, the advice she got was shocking: “Margaret, what do you have to put down to stay in this relationship?”

The answer tumbled out of her before she could think: “Hope.”

She had to put down the hope that he would change. The hope that he would apologize. The hope that he would suddenly become the father she wanted him to be. That is the “radical” part. It means stopping the internal negotiation where you think, If I say the right thing, they’ll finally understand.

The Squirrel Strategy

So, what does this look like in practice? Margaret’s therapist gave her a quiz. “If you’re on the phone with him and he starts being mean, what are you going to do?”

Margaret’s initial instinct—like many of us with a “pleaser” background—was to stand up for herself. “I’m going to tell him he can’t talk to me that way.”

Her therapist smiled gently and said, “Margaret, telling someone they can’t talk to you that way sounds a lot like you’re still hoping you can change how they talk to you.”

Instead, she offered a different tool: The Squirrel Strategy.

The advice was simple: If the conversation goes south, say, “Dad, I just ran over a squirrel. I gotta go,” and hang up the phone.

(For the record, Margaret never actually ran over a squirrel. It was a metaphor.)

This is about protecting yourself when you are flooded. When we are triggered, our higher brain functions go offline. We can’t respond skillfully. The kindest thing you can do for yourself—and the relationship—is to remove yourself from the situation until you can find your footing again.

Applying radical acceptance at work

You might be thinking, That’s great for family drama, but I can’t tell my CEO I ran over a squirrel during a board meeting.

Fair point. But the principle remains the same.

In the workplace, we often encounter “annoying” colleagues or demanding bosses. We spend enormous amounts of energy wishing they were different. We think, if only he would prepare for meetings, or if only she weren’t so critical.

That resistance is exhausting.

If you have a colleague who checks their phone throughout every meeting, you have choices. You can sit with resentment (resistance). You can try to change them (often futile). Or, you can radically accept that this is just who they are.

When you accept it, you stop taking it personally. You free yourself from the afflictive emotions of anger and frustration. You realize that their behavior is about them, not you.

Acceptance leads to freedom

Radical acceptance is not for the other person; it’s for you.

When Margaret stopped fighting her father’s reality, something shifted. The relationship didn’t become a fairytale, but the tension evaporated. She could spend time with him without getting wrecked. She found peace by changing the only part of the engine she had control over: herself.

This applies to everything—traffic jams, health issues, and aging. David recently woke up with an ocular migraine that left him feeling miserable. Part of him wanted to rail against it, to be angry that my day was ruined. Instead, he accepted it. This is what is happening right now. He wasn’t trying to fix it or fight it. And immediately, the suffering lessened.

We invite you to reflect on your life. Where are you resisting reality? Is it a circumstance, a relationship, or perhaps a part of yourself?

What would happen if you set aside the hope that it will change and instead let it be? You might find that when you stop fighting reality, you finally have the energy to navigate it.

Leadership Deep Dive

Ep 167: Is Your Life Messy Enough

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In this episode of the Leadership Deep Dive, Margaret and David ask a provocative question: “Is Your Life Messy Enough?”

Life (and leadership) isn’t meant to be neat, tidy, and perfectly ordered—it’s meant to be lived.

We celebrate the chaos, the curveballs, and the unexpected detours that shape who we are. 

We dive into stories of resilience, creativity, and growth, showing how embracing the mess can unlock deeper meaning, stronger connections, and surprising joy.

From personal anecdotes, we explore the beauty in imperfection and the power of navigating uncertainty with courage.

Whether you’re juggling careers, relationships, or just the everyday whirlwind, this episode reminds you that the mess isn’t something to fix—it’s something to embrace.

So ask yourself, “Is your life messy enough?”

Leadership Deep Dive

Ep 165: Permission to Retreat

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When was the last time you gave yourself permission to retreat?

In this thoughtful episode, David and Margaret explore the transformative power of stepping away. During the recording of the podcast, David was mid-way through his own retreat. He took  a few days for himself to travel to the mountains of Colorado (one of his favorite spots) to enjoy the changing leaves and some quiet time.

Our hosts explore some of the many ways of going on retreat—whether it’s escaping to mountain solitude, better sleep rhythms, or setting aside time for creativity.

How Do You Know It’s Time To Take Some Time?

Last month, the daylight rhythms switched so that there are more dark hours than hours of light each day. Margaret shares that she had a conversation on the solstice which invited us to find permission to curl up and enjoy the pull towards stillness that can accompany shorter days.

David chose to plan some time away after he noticed having a strong urge to have a change in climate and environment. He knows that giving himself permission to get away puts fuel in his tank.

Margaret knows it’s time to schedule some quiet time when she recognizes when her capacity for joy starts to diminish and she starts to avoid tasks that feel boring or challenging (more than usual).

Is There Such a Thing as a “Sleep Retreat”?

David swears by eight (or more) hours of sleep (and the science behind it). Our hosts wonder: could listeners benefit from commiting to a weeklong or even a weekend “retreat” that includes a commitment to 8 hours of sleeping?

David is a fan of beginning his night when the sun goes down.

Other Ideas To Retreat — Even from Home

David and Margaret explore how even brief retreats can restore your creative spark — even if travel or solitude for several days is not possible. Here are a few of their ideas:

• Say no to something in service of honoring your Inner Introvert
• Journaling
• Walking in nature or spending an afternoon on the beach or near a lake or stream
• Saying yes to connection and deep conversation with good friends
• Julia Cameron in her book The Artist’s Way offers many creative suggestions to retreat to self
• Painting, knitting, making soup — or other activities that feel relaxing or restorative
• Watching movies that make us laugh or move us can be an escape OR curling up with a book — whatever feels like a better choice for you!

If Your Team Needs Time Away Together …

Our hosts also suggest that if your team needs a rejuvenating experience, they work in organizations seeking to build trust through organizational retreats. Through shared experiences and intentional boundaries, we can cultivate an environment where rest becomes a catalyst for growth and creativity. These moments of pause can rejuvenate not just individuals but entire teams, fostering a culture of innovation and resilience.

When we create moments for reflection and rejuvenation, we lay the groundwork for more meaningful contributions to both personal and professional spheres. The harmony between rest and action becomes a delicate but rewarding balance that sustains us over time.

In conclusion, our hosts invite listeners to think about how they might slow down in service of clarity, rest and perspective.

Leadership Deep Dive

Ep 164: The Great Collision

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Margaret and David welcome guest Graeme Watt, a principal at Anthem Creative, to discuss the “Great Collision” of tech and traditionally late adopters in the nonprofit sector. Graeme’s career has straddled both nonprofit and for-profit work — and has kept a close eye on the adoption of technology — or lack thereof — that may portend big problems in the nonprofit space.

Graeme asks the question, “Will tomorrow be more digital than it is today?” If the pace of digital transformation continues to accelerate, as it promises to do, it will have some significant  implications for nonprofit leaders.

The “great collision” refers to the multiple technological revolutions, any one of which alone would be transformative. But multiple revolutions are happening at once. Graeme discussed the rapid advancements in AI, blockchain, digital currencies, humanoid robotics, and biotechnology, all of which are emerging and all of which are likely to have implications for fundraising organizations and society.

AI In Fundraising?

Most of us are at least beginning to understand the personal applications of AI. Our hosts explore how these technologies could be applied within nonprofit organizations.

Idea #1: Nonprofit Efficiency

Graeme notes that in most nonprofit settings, the mission is large and the resources are few. That leads to considering how the potential of AI to automate administrative tasks might improve efficiency for nonprofit organizations. How might AI allow staff to focus on donor relationships and mission-critical work that is best done by humans?

David wonders about how AI tools might aid in data analysis and donor management. He opines that having tools to streamline call report processes, something that could convert handwritten or voice-recorded notes into digital files for easier database entry, would be a great example of using AI for fundraising in a way that frees up humans.

Idea #2: Using Tech To Improve Donor Retention 

Graeme discussed the challenges of donor retention in the nonprofit sector and highlighted the potential of technology and automation to create a “donor journey.” He emphasized how AI could be a great tool to help personalize donor experiences with interactions, surveys, etc., about their preferences and articulating what they care most about. AI could then use these preferences to nurture donors from their first gift so that they continue giving.

David agreed and added that automation could be beneficial for both annual and major gift donors, though human interaction remains crucial for major gifts.

They also touched on the use of technology for donor prospecting and qualifying donors for major giving conversations.

Idea #3: Refining Donor Engagement

Graeme discussed the implementation of new digital fundraising tools that use SMS and text messaging to improve donor engagement and qualification for major gifts. It’s going much better —  achieving higher completion rates — than traditional email methods.

Margaret shares that she has learned many new ways to use AI personally in conversations with friends who use it creatively. She suggests that nonprofits could benefit from sharing more AI applications and use cases to foster collaboration. To that end, Graeme plans to launch a podcast on that very topic, highlighting use examples to facilitate knowledge exchange.

In case your imagination hasn’t yet been stretched, Graeme shares that in board governance and fundraising, he’s been following an autonomous AI agent serving as an advisor and ambassador for Rainforest-alliance.org.

Idea #4: Can AI Replace or Assist Events?

While many fundraisers agree that events and galas may not be the best or most efficient way to raise money, they may retain an important role in human connection. Our hosts encourage “gala killing” when appropriate, and considering how more and more effective digital campaigns might yield more gifts.

But if nonprofits are having events, Graeme encourages listeners to think about using digital tools to extend the impact of live events, engaging more donors post-event.

Something To Try

Graeme shared a practice from his company. where they have introduced an “AI Hour” as a way to encourage staff to explore and utilize AI tools. This practice has increased productivity and reduced fear around AI. Graeme suggested that nonprofits consider adopting a similar program and include a digital plan and corresponding budget in their financial planning.

Leadership Deep Dive

Ep 163: Naming the Elephant in the Room

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What is the impact of ignoring versus naming the elephant in the room?

Margaret reported that she had hoped to feel energized and rested after the 3-day Labor Day weekend. But thanks to a run-in with a (metaphoric) elephant, that’s not what happened.

In this episode, David and Margaret share how those elephants — in this case, unspoken emotions — can impact us. They explored the challenges and benefits of naming the elephant in the room.

To Name or Not To Name: Emotions in Group Settings

Margaret shared how she spent part of the long weekend: attending a 95th birthday party for Margaret’s partner’s grandfather. She reported that the occasion left her both joyful … and exhausted. Despite the sweetness and celebration of the occasion, at which the birthday celebrant was grateful and remarkably present and sharp, Margaret felt a proverbial unnamed elephant in the room.

She and her partner later reflected on the elephant, which was much unspoken sadness and anticipatory grief that many of the family members present at the gathering seemed to be feeling, even though the occasion was technically cheerful. The birthday man was one of the few who openly acknowledged the event’s significance given his age — and the fact that there might not be too many more parties like this one for his birthday.

David suggested that sometimes naming emotions in such situations is clarifying and helps people process them. Naming unspoken truths and emotions is generally a good strategy, in safe contexts, but it also depends on who is present.

Margaret expressed uncertainty about whether others at this specific party would have been comfortable with such openness.

They explored the broader question of how to address elephants in the room and agreed that naming emotions is generally helpful — even if such naming might first create discomfort and vulnerability before it creates safety.

What About Organizational Elephants?

David and Margaret discussed the challenges and benefits of addressing unspoken fears and emotions in organizational settings.

There is a lot of anxiety on many of the fundraising teams and leaders our hosts speak with. Many are worried about missing goals and falling short.

In an organizational setting, it falls often to the leader to take the initiative and share their own fears first. They explored how when a leader names and acknowledges their own feelings, particularly through personal “I” statements, it can create safety and encourage open dialogue with others on the team.

They noted how rare this approach is in organizational cultures, in part because for such conversations to be effective, there must be high levels of trust. David has worked with a team that did reach this level of trust, and they were able to be vulnerable and “clear” what was on their minds. He recalls how sharp that exercise made them, and how present they could be to the business at hand after they cleared.

Building Trust and Resolving Conflict

David and Margaret discussed the importance of addressing and managing difficult emotions and issues within teams big and small. They share about their own experiences when such exercises turned out to be a very important use of the time — sometimes more important than the pre-existing agenda. They shared personal experiences of how acknowledging and processing emotions can lead to more productive meetings and better team dynamics.

If your team needs help creating a culture that has the skills to address those elephants, our hosts offer a two-consecutive-half-day training program called “Growing Together Through Trust, Candor, and Conflict” to help teams build trust and handle disagreements effectively. They encouraged listeners to reach out for coaching or share their own strategies for dealing with elephants in the room.

Leadership Deep Dive

Ep 162: Back to School

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Summer’s Over …

David and Margaret explored the dynamics of heading back-to-school — including the anxiety.

They noticed that the parents they have had contact with seem to sometimes experience more anxiety than their children at the prospect of school starting up again, even as the children’s transition back to school is often smooth. And our hosts wonder why this might be.

They speculated about a few causes, including that it might relate to remembering their own anxiety about school.

David shared his personal experiences with school, including challenges in elementary and high school, and suggested that institutional education was not always a positive environment for him. And Margaret remembered feeling a lot of hyperachiever pressure as a child, wanting to be noticed and liked by her new teachers every fall.

Balancing Academics and Social Well-Being

Many parents long for their children to achieve a lot in school — and many have big dreams for their children to go to great colleges. Others want their children to make great friends, to fit in and to be happy. Our hosts wonder: is it possible to check all those boxes at once? Can our children stand out AND fit in all at the same time?

Modern culture often pressures parents to prioritize academic success over other important life skills.

They also touched on the concept of “avoiding” as a common saboteur behavior — and its relevance to parenting. This might look like people who go to great lengths to avoid conflict, including even unpleasant or uncomfortable conversations. And it might be relevant for parents who are struggling with kids who have learning differences.

Dyslexia Awareness and Learning Differences

David shared his personal experience of having an undiagnosed learning difference, specifically with dyslexia. That made both reading and taking tests very difficult for him, as it does for many, many other children. These days, he is a prolific writer and has discovered a new way to read by listening to audiobooks — but school always felt very hard to him. He discussed the importance of recognizing and supporting learning differences in children, noting that more resources are available now than when he was in school.

Margaret talks about the idea of “school brain,” meaning the ways some of our brains are very well suited to how most schools teach — while other kids can be equally smart but struggle with a mismatch in how they process and receive information.

Having had our own learning differences or knowing our children are struggling can spike parents’ anxiety this time of year as their kids head back to school.

The two of them both feel inspired by both the growing movement on LinkedIn, where neurodivergent individuals are claiming their identities and advocating for themselves as well as the evolution of education systems and the recognition of different types of intelligences beyond just rational and analytical skills.

A Hug Doesn’t Make it Worse

David and Margaret discussed the benefits of hugging, citing scientific studies that show hugging boosts the immune system and lowers anxiety.

Next Steps

1. Listeners who identify with having an “avoider saboteur” can reach out to Margaret or David for PQ coaching.
2. Here’s a link to the science of longer hugs — at least 20 seconds is optimal.
3. Go hug someone for a minute.

Leadership Deep Dive

Ep 161: Finding Gifts and Opportunities in Difficult Circumstances

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547 Requests for Juice: Annoying or Funny?

Margaret and David discussed the importance of finding gifts and opportunities in difficult circumstances. The topic for this podcast came from a post Margaret wrote for LinkedIn.

The story was about her then-toddler son’s persistent request for juice that felt quite trying at the time, but ultimately became a family joke. Margaret was struck by how sweet and funny it felt in the retelling.

It prompted our hosts to ask: what other episodes from your past might be ready to re-file from difficult to containing a gift or opportunity.

This exercise aligns with their Positive Intelligence coaching program (PQ). The work of PQ, among other things, encourages  leaders to overcome self-sabotaging tendencies like being a controller or pleaser. Through the lens of PQ, Margaret wondered if her strong people pleaser back then benefitted from having to say no to her son 547 nights in a row.

What If It’s Really Difficult To Find the Gifts?

The two discussed the challenges of moving on from past relationships and the process of healing from emotional pain. Sometimes, when we look back at a difficult episode or story, it feels only like touching a bruise. It still feels tender and painful.

David reflected on his challenging graduate school experience. The difficult memory has made it a long process for him to find the gifts. Ultimately, this era in his life led to significant personal and professional growth. He realized he didn’t love engineering and made a career shift toward people-oriented roles.

Many people also struggle to let go of relationships that have ended.  One way to process is to look back at what we loved about the relationship to create a list of “Things I Want in My Next Relationship.” Conversely, we can add negative aspects to our list of dealbreakers.

David acknowledged his difficulty in seeing the gift in relationships that have ended. He knows  ending relationships can open up space for something new, but that still feels more theoretical than gift-like. He talked about still feeling “the tail” that’s left behind, which is really just grief.

Along with the grief, Margaret talks about the way that she sometimes has felt powerless and child-like when she hasn’t been in choice about ending a relationship. She talks about how she’s learning to soothe this historic charge.

Another Opportunity To Practice Self Compassion

David and Margaret discussed the importance of practicing self-compassion. That might be as simple as reminding ourselves that we are human, that something still hurts. It also looks like silencing the voice that tells us we “should” get over something. Self compassion means being kind and gentle to ourselves when we are hurting.

Other  helpful tools include curiosity, gentle self-reflection, and patience. Margaret recalled a challenging past episode in her life in which she applied for and did not get a job she really wanted. She talks about the feeling of hating what it felt like at the time, but also being able to trust that there would be something positive that would come from it, even though she couldn’t see what that might be at the time.

How Do I Start Looking for Gifts?

Our hosts offer one more tool for finding gifts and opportunities in difficult circumstances. David introduced the concept of shifting from a “to me” mindset to a “for me” perspective. This might look like asking oneself this inquiry: What if my life was happening FOR me as opposed of TO ME? How might I see this differently?

They also briefly touched on plans for hosting a retreat in Colorado to further explore these themes.

Finally, they discussed the practice of harvesting energy from difficult emotions, rather than denying or repressing them. They explored how anger, for example, can serve as a catalyst for setting boundaries or taking action. They encouraged listeners to try these practices and offered information about an upcoming retreat.

Leadership Deep Dive

Ep 159: Leadership and Emotional Intelligence

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David and Margaret dive into the ways that Leadership and Emotional Intelligence can help when relationships get hard. They announced a free masterclass on June 4th, 2025, to provide tools for improving emotional awareness and communication.

Reading the Space

Margaret shares that for the recording of the podcast, she is wearing an orange sticky note. After a rough relationship moment before recording the podcast, the color orange is for her a symbol of possibility and enthusiasm. This concept is drawn from their leadership training, where they used colors as a code for the hard-to-describe emotions and energy that are often unacknowledged in conversations and in rooms. It’s a way to talk about “reading the space.”

They explain how they learned to recognize what’s in the space by naming colors like blue, which represents permission to feel sadness in service of creating emotional intimacy.

Exploring How Men and Women Differ on Emotional Intelligence

David acknowledged his ongoing journey in emotional intelligence and expressed appreciation for Margaret’s support.

The duo wonder, do men have additional challenges in expressing and recognizing their emotions? Cultural norms often discourage men from expressing emotions and being vulnerable, and encourage anger as an alternative.

They explore the importance of acknowledging and accepting emotions in the conversation without immediately trying to change the texture. Many of us have an impulse to cheer things up or steer conversations away from topics that feel hearvy. And men often seem to be taught to alter conversations rather than accept them as they are. They also touched on the societal expression of anger, noting that while some find it easier to confront anger with anger, this approach can lead to contention.

What Do Leadership and Emotional Intelligence Have To Do with What’s Going On NOW?

The environment of the world right now feels challenging to many — and it can have a big impact on personal relationships. External stressors, such as global and political events, can affect our emotional capacity. And when our emotional capacity feels full or flooded, then we can react unskillfully in personal and professional relationships.

Tuning into world events seems these days to lead to increased stress and emotional fatigue. Many of us are feeling at capacity right now.

For example, the same situations can trigger different reactions, depending on one’s emotional state. When we are calm, we can be spacious. But if we are already stressed out, the same set of circumstances can make us blow.

So what can we do?

Margaret emphasized the importance of skills to help people navigate these challenges, which was the inspiration for their upcoming masterclass, called “Manage Your Inner Chaos.”

One Skill To Start With

One starting point in navigating hard days is to recognize emotional triggers in relationships. How do our hosts know they are triggered?

David shared his experience of feeling judged during a recent Christian men’s group meeting, which led to a physical reaction in his gut. He knows that feeling means he’s getting triggered. David also mentioned that feeling his face and chest flush is another one. It points to feelings of shame, which he has learned to recognize and address, rather than being controlled by them. Margaret described her own physical cues when triggered, which include rubbing her face and fidgeting.

By learning to notice these triggers, we take an important step towards preventing reactive behavior in relationships.

Join Us To Learn More

The the two invite listeners to save their spot at their upcoming free masterclass on June 4th at 12 noon Eastern.

The one-hour session will focus on tools for managing difficult emotions and improving emotional intelligence. It will provide practical skills and introduce participants to a follow-on program about self-sabotage and relationships.

Leadership Deep Dive

Ep 158: Using Your Mind for a Healthier and Happier Life

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Margaret and David discuss David’s new book, “Using Your Mind for a Healthier and Happier Life.”

David’s most recent book is a series of short essays inspired by Buddhist teachings. It blends principles of psychology, mindfulness, and leadership to provide actionable strategies that foster happiness, health, and resilience in life.

Nuggets of Wisdom, Nuggets of Love

David shares the inspiration for the book, which started with sayings from the Buddha, which have been passed on by disciples and followers.

Many of the early chapters focus on the concept of non-duality, a Buddhist concept. In these essays, David writes about the spectrum between apparent opposites like love and hate.

On the topic of love, David touches on different types of love, referencing C.S. Lewis’s work.

David and Margaret discuss how love might be a bridge to today’s societal polarization. They challenge listeners: how might you use love to begin softening? Margaret and David are on opposite sides of the political spectrum — and have used their friendship and respect for each other not to shut each other down or abandon each other.

If you can’t get to a place of openness using your mind, Margaret suggests a somatic way to open your heart. David introduces curiosity as another tool to open.

A Stoic Father

David discusses his father’s influence on his writing and life philosophy.

David talks about his father’s wisdom as a voice in his head. Much about David was informed by growing up as a philosopher’s son. While his father was not particularly warm or fuzzy, David remembers his father as exuding charm and warmth, especially with students and friends.

David’s father was a Stoic, although David acknowledges that his father’s interpretation of stoicism led to withholding affection. That was both strengthening and hurtful. He reflects on how he now embraces his father’s “less is more” philosophy in his own life, living in a small space with few material possessions.

David’s newest project involves movie quotes, which reflect his father’s love for film.

On Anger

David discusses the role of emotions, particularly anger, in several chapters of the book, including how they interact with personal growth and relationships.

In one of the essays, he talks about how emotions like anger should not be denied but approached with caution. Anger, David says, is an emotion served hot. It can be both useful and harmful. Anger serves an important purpose, such as establishing boundaries and motivating action against injustice. But it can be messy and imprecise.

On one hand, it’s essential to express anger and have difficult conversations to relieve built-up tension, rather than avoiding conflict.  But when expressed unskillfully, anger can also be destructive.

Grace is important in dealing with anger, both for the person expressing it and the person receiving it.

A Podcast Rebrand Preview: The Leadership Spelunk

The duo announce a rebranding of their podcast to “The Leadership Spelunk.” Margaret and David are planning to strap on their headlamps and explore some of the deeper crevices of leadership. Expect more details soon.

David’s book Using Your Mind for A Healthier and Happier Life is a transformative guide revealing the profound connection between your mind and your resolve to lead a fulfilling life. Get your copy of the book on Amazon here.